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SMIGfan

Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

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Thought this topic deserved its own thread with the new season beginning.

First off, a link to Paul's original post followed by an excerpt:

 

 

To VAR or not to VAR?

Confusion. So much confusion. The video referees that so many managers, fans and pundits have called for have been trialled in Russia.

But plenty of issues have arisen. In the group stages, six "game-changing decisions" were made using VAR, with another 29 "major incidents" - according to Fifa's head referee Massimo Busacca. That's 35 in 12 games. Interestingly, though, it appeared not to be used in either semi-final.

Referees can decide whether they want help from the VAR, although other officials, including the video ones, can suggest he uses the technology. If he does, he has the choice of trusting the VAR's decision or viewing the footage himself on a screen on the side of the pitch.

However, fans cannot hear any of the conversations or see on a screen what the referee is watching - meaning several long delays while nobody on the pitch, on the sidelines, in the stands, or watching on TV, knows exactly what is happening.

There was controversy in Chile's semi-final win, when Portugal defender Jose Fonte appeared to foul Francisco Silva in the box, but the referee did not award a penalty - or ask to see the incident again.

In the group game between Germany and Cameroon, the wrong player - Sebastien Siani - was booked in a case of mistaken identity. After referee Wilmar Roldan used the VAR, he upgraded Siani's yellow card to a red. But, after watching the video a second time, he saw Ernest Mabouka had actually committed the foul and sent him off instead.

While all this was happening, everyone else was in the dark. Cameroon boss Hugo Broos said afterwards: "I didn't understand it and I still don't understand it now."

Fifa president Gianni Infantino says the system has been a "great success", but that work is needed on "the details" such as the speed of decisions.

"Without the VAR, we would have had a different tournament and it would have been a little less fair," he added. "Thanks to VAR we have achieved a great thing. Those big mistakes will not happen any longer.

"It will always be the referee who decides and there will always be discussions, but big mistakes will be corrected and that is a great achievement after it was asked for for so many years."

 

==================================================================

Howard Webb has mentioned that this situation - close to a 'worst case scenario' - is unlikely to happen. Yet it nearly occurred in the Dutch Super Cup between Feyenoord and Vitesse.

The Feyenoord goal was actually (and correctly) disallowed for offside but imagine a good goal had been scored.

The only other thing missing from the scene was a player sustaining a serious injury during the Feyenoord counter.

https://twitter.com/FOXSportsnl/status/893884709826170880

 

Edited by SMIGfan
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There are enough stoppages in football without this shite.

I don't want to fork out £400 a season to watch a bunch of nob heads huddled round a screen and then still getting the decision wrong.

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Footie isn't as stop-start as many other sports which use VAR, think rugby and cricket. You can easily have a situation in football where one team thinks it was a foul;  then the other team play on and score at the opposite end. This can only happen because the referee allowed the game to continue.

If he stopped the game and went to the sideline to check the incident, let's say that would have led to a 30 second stoppage and a drop ball / free kick / wherever play would have ensued from.

For me I don't like the idea of an additional stoppage, but I don't mind additional policing of the game at all. I would say rather have a real-time referral system, where play goes on but the referee can ask an official who has access to video to look at a specific incident, and advise if action should be taken. 

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VAR is very good in theory, but as the Confederates Cup showed it needs a lot of work and practice still. The ref's need to leave the viewing to a team in a booth and not get involved, they seemed to be the main reason for slowing the process down.

Contrary to what people think, footie is very stop start. The ball is only live for about 61 minutes each match and only in play for an average of 31.2 seconds at a time with the average stoppage being 18.7 seconds.

Researchers found that on average there are 108 interruptions per match, comprising:

  • 40 Throw-ins
  • 33 free kicks
  • 17 goal kicks
  • 10 corner kicks
  • 4 substitutions
  • 3 kick offs

Plenty of time to look at incidents.

El, you don't want to "fork out £400 a season to watch a bunch of nob heads huddled round a screen and then still getting the decision wrong", but what if it means the difference between 3 points or 1 point?

And SJ, the game being stopped for 30 seconds after a foul so the ref can check the incident isn't a bad thing as it can work out for the better for the game in general as it not only sees if it's a foul or not, but can also see if the player being fouled is trying to gain unfair advantage by play acting, it has the possibility to erase it from the game.

Like I said in my opening, it needs work and is not ready for top flight football yet, but given a go in the lower leagues, and training the refereeing teams it can work out great for the sport like it has for rugby and such.

 

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3 hours ago, Paul said:

VAR is very good in theory, but as the Confederates Cup showed it needs a lot of work and practice still. The ref's need to leave the viewing to a team in a booth and not get involved, they seemed to be the main reason for slowing the process down.

Contrary to what people think, footie is very stop start. The ball is only live for about 61 minutes each match and only in play for an average of 31.2 seconds at a time with the average stoppage being 18.7 seconds.

Researchers found that on average there are 108 interruptions per match, comprising:

  • 40 Throw-ins
  • 33 free kicks
  • 17 goal kicks
  • 10 corner kicks
  • 4 substitutions
  • 3 kick offs

Plenty of time to look at incidents.

El, you don't want to "fork out £400 a season to watch a bunch of nob heads huddled round a screen and then still getting the decision wrong", but what if it means the difference between 3 points or 1 point?

And SJ, the game being stopped for 30 seconds after a foul so the ref can check the incident isn't a bad thing as it can work out for the better for the game in general as it not only sees if it's a foul or not, but can also see if the player being fouled is trying to gain unfair advantage by play acting, it has the possibility to erase it from the game.

Like I said in my opening, it needs work and is not ready for top flight football yet, but given a go in the lower leagues, and training the refereeing teams it can work out great for the sport like it has for rugby and such.

 

Okay so if footie is already stop-start, why would we want to add more stoppages, or lengthen the stoppages? According to your stats, 33% of a footie game is stoppages, isn't that enough already? Remember also time will be halted to review incidents, so it has to be added on somewhere.

Although your stats are interesting, referees don't add time for throw-ins, free kicks, goal kicks, corner kicks or kick offs (unless the team who have been awarded the foul are tardy). They add 30 seconds for each substitution. So even though the ball is only in play for 61 minutes, time wasn't stopped for 29 minutes.

A game of rugby is 80 minutes, but it takes about 120 minutes to broadcast a match. There they regularly stop the clock to check incidents. These are the stops that I feel football does not need, let the game flow

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The point I'm trying to make is that there are already a whole lot of stoppages in the game and a whole lot of mistakes are made, so why not use the time to to make things right?

I hope the people who complain about the thought of using VAR don't complain when a dodgy decision or goal goes against them.

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Regarding the Feyenoord-Vitesse situation, what made the waiting more interesting was that everyone knew the goal had been ruled offside and many were anticipating that VAR would rule it as a good goal. Not only were their hopes dashed that Feyenoord hadn't scored they gained a bigger shock when Vitesse had been awarded a penalty before the counter had begun  Hence the note in the tweet that the score went from a potential 2-0 to 1-1.

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5 hours ago, Paul said:

El, you don't want to "fork out £400 a season to watch a bunch of nob heads huddled round a screen and then still getting the decision wrong", but what if it means the difference between 3 points or 1 point?

Then I still don't want it, referees are going to miss certain decisions, they're human, just like the players make errors.

No fucking way do I want more stoppages in the game, especially when the the majority of football decisions aren't black or white and can be interpreted dozens of different ways, with people still not agreeing a week after the game has finished.

The controversy and grievances add to the game if anything.

Quote

 

Researchers found that on average there are 108 interruptions per match, comprising:

  • 40 Throw-ins
  • 33 free kicks
  • 17 goal kicks
  • 10 corner kicks
  • 4 substitutions
  • 3 kick offs

Plenty of time to look at incidents.

 

This is bollocks imo, these stoppages are still going to happen, it takes second to take a throw in.

Any time looking at a video screen would be additional time, the referee currently makes a decision instantly, it has no bearing on the time it takes for a player to take a free kick or corner.

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What about when players crowd round him and cause stoppages asking for a ruling?

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24 minutes ago, Paul said:

What about when players crowd round him and cause stoppages asking for a ruling?

Again takes seconds and if players got booked for doing it excessively then they would soon learn not to do it, amazes me that they've never brought that rule in.

 

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I've always been against it. It works in sports that have clearer defined rules like Tennis and Cricket and to an extent Rugby, but so many decisions in football aren't as obvious. We will still be arguing over the video refs decision. 

 

That's without the waiting around for the video ref to make the wrong decision. Fuck video tech. Goal line technology is as far as it goes for me.

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I believe this happened yesterday (Friday).

Polish league, Slask Wrocław v Cracovia

Referee is Szymon Marciniak, FIFA referee since 2012. Recently did the Napoli-Nice qualifier a few days ago. Last season handled the first legs of both PSG-Barcelona and Juventus-Barcelona as well as the Europa League semi Lyon-Ajax. Arguably considered the best referee today.

But did he get this one right? Couple of things at issue: Was it a foul and if so, inside or outside the area?

https://streamable.com/qibrl

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Never a foul. But it looked in the area, atleast he isnt completely incompetent just very incompetent instead.

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The last angle they showed made it pretty clear it was a dive. It is in the area though - on the line.

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Didn't VAR catch a disgraceful dive yesterday? I'm trying to find the clip, it was on the BBC website

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Saturday's Genoa-Juventus match had two penalties awarded via VAR. They appear at 1:22 and 3:56 of video.

Juve also had a VAR penalty awarded against them last week.

Gigi Buffon post-match after Genoa:
"They told us that VAR would be used in clear-cut incidents where there were mistakes, but now you are even checking the replays for a trodden toe or a finger in an ear.
It's no longer football -- it's turning into water polo. It takes too long. I didn't celebrate when we were awarded a penalty because six minutes had passed.
Last season we had three penalties in our favour, but if it carries on like this, we'll have fifty. I'm happy with that as a Juventus player, but it ruins the entertainment factor."

 

Edited by SMIGfan

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Mainz v Koln... VAR confirmed the penalty called by Felix Brych. Penalty was converted and was the game's only goal. Brych later admitted that when he watches video of the play he cannot detect the contact he initially saw while on the pitch.

WTF?!

https://streamable.com/odza2

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On 8/27/2017 at 10:06 PM, SMIGfan said:

Gigi Buffon post-match after Genoa:
" I didn't celebrate when we were awarded a penalty because six minutes had passed."

 

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Think it works, its just the time it takes, that'll be the problem in this country. It seems to take ages in Italy, Germany seems alot quicker. 

Can't remember what podcast I heard it on but someone was saying its stopped most of the players surrounding the refs and player behaviour has greatly improved in Italy. 

Worked well yesterday in the Napoli game, Insigne looked off for Napoli's opening goal but VAR showed him on. 

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Fwiw, Brych has been assigned Tuesday's Sevilla-Liverpool match.

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Going to be used for the first time here in the 2 semi finals of the League Cup.

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1 hour ago, SamCFC said:

Going to be used for the first time here in the 2 semi finals of the League Cup.

Isn't it being used in one of the FA Cup 3rd round matches before those?

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Not looking forward to this coming in tbh. 

The bad decisions give us things to talk about in the pubs afterwards, it all adds to the game - as has been said above.

If it comes in I'd like it to be given to the coaches to check, like hawkeye or whatever in tennis. 1 VAR check per half or something. If it was being used during that Forest Arsenal game yesterday they'd still be playing now. 

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Hope its a fucking disaster tonight, ruins the game and the absolutely stupid idea is kicked into touch.

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